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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 22:41:15 GMT -6
I literally had a dream last night about listening to transformers. Except I was installing them in my own body somehow and listening to how different my voice sounded between OT models. Truly the stuff of nightmares. LOL now THAT is just a bit bizarre... oddly very interesting as well though. Yeah this is how my brain works...may have something to do with my gravitation towards surreal and dreamy music styles.
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Post by ragan on Aug 15, 2019 0:06:19 GMT -6
LOL now THAT is just a bit bizarre... oddly very interesting as well though. Yeah this is how my brain works...may have something to do with my gravitation towards surreal and dreamy music styles.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 15, 2019 7:48:46 GMT -6
Yeah this is how my brain works...may have something to do with my gravitation towards surreal and dreamy music styles. After avoiding it for a long time, I realized fairly recently that I like that record.
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elcct
Full Member
Posts: 36
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Post by elcct on Aug 15, 2019 16:46:36 GMT -6
Is listening to transformers an addiction? I just received a pair of WE 119E.
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Post by shoe on Aug 15, 2019 17:20:58 GMT -6
Since it's been a few days, I'll start sharing some of my opinions about this test and some of the findings/results as well.
I was surprised by how similar several of the sources sound through each transformer. Both of these transformers are billed as intending to match the performance of an LO1166. I don't have a real L01166, but I'd say they do a pretty good job of sounding similar to each other, anyway, in this preamp. In fact, all of the null tests I tried resulted in differences below -40db (starting with -3db normalized files). Some of the differences go doen as low as -110 db. In a white noise test, there was an interestingly pronounced dip in the null sum at about 11khz. This is apparently where the transformers are most similar. However, there is a steady rise in difference from about 600hz and below, topping out around -50dB at 20hz. I suspect this keeps going up below 20hz, as well. There was a less steep rise up from 11khz to 20khz (my white noise sample unfortunately only went up to 20khz).
Interestingly, the null tests resulted in something that sounds a lot like room bleed, to me. Everything I did run through did come out a little bit different, but overall very similar, I thought.
However, they do sound different in some meaningful ways for me.
1. Bass frequencies seem to be more pronounced in the Sowter transformer. This is consistent with the null results from every test I did, including white noise (though that doesn't tell which of the two has more bass, it seems to be the sowter) I think this benefits the bass tone I like to use pretty significantly. So this is a clear tip towards the Sowter, in my opinion.
2. Drums also seem to benefit from the extra bass a bit, but sound a lot more similar to me (of course, I'm not a drummer, so there's that). Strangely, I also feel like the decay of each hit seems a little bit cleaner on the Sowter as well, as if the Carnhill is a little bit gritty and the Sowter is smoother. Perhaps this is some sort of hysteresis effect to do with transient response? I'm not sure exactly what could cause this. I didn't have as strong a preference on this one, but I liked the Sowter a little better.
3. Guitars had some mixed results for me. On the shoegazey guitars, I thought the result was pretty similar with a little bit more brightness and definition on the Sowter transformer. I didn't have a clear preference, here. However, I thought the difference was a lot more pronounced on the lead guitar part. Here, the Sowter was more clearly brighter and a little bit in your face, compared to the Carnhill, which seemed to actually flatter that lead and smooth it out a little. Of course, in both cases, I would just EQ the guitars slightly differently and both would be fine.
4. Vocals. I didn't notice a big difference on the wet vocals, but I am glad I ran the dry vocals, because I found this to be one of the more pronounced differences between the two transformers. To me, the Carnhill sounded a bit tighter and cleaner on the vocals, while the Sowter struck me as more relaxed, but also a little bit dirtier, though not harsher. I thought this was sort of fascinating, and maybe I notice the difference more because it's a human voice (my own voice, no less). However, I think the null test is quite interesting here, as well, and seems to indicate a significant difference. I seem to hear some sort of vibration or resonance in the null test, and I think this is from the Sowter transformer.
So this brings me to an interesting difference I noticed. If you have all monitoring outputs off while you run audio through the Sowter transformers, you can hear the audio faintly in the transformer itself. I didn't notice this in the Carnhill transformers.
This is, of course, normal for a lot of audio transformers, because the magnetic field induced in the core vibrates the coils if it's strong enough and the coils are not impregnated with something to stop this. It's a bit like the difference between a potted guitar pickup and an unpotted one. The unpotted one picks up more of the body's vibration because it's a bit (or maybe a lot) microphonic. I think something in my voice may actually be resonating a little bit with this vibration and that's why it comes out a little bit looser and dirtier.
So this brings me to the other null test results. I mentioned they sound reminiscent of mic bleed to me. I think, if we're hearing something extra from the Sowter, it could very well be partly to do with the coils vibrating, so that it really does "bleed" a little bit and add some "color."
So all in all, I kept the Sowters in and think they sound quite nice with a little extra something. Is it night and day, though? Not really, although bass players and vocalists would probably benefit/notice the most.
I think I may also try running some other things. Synth, Piano, and Acoustic guitar come to mind.
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Post by audioscape on Aug 16, 2019 17:22:06 GMT -6
Hahaha, I do this ALL the time (listening to, running analysis on and auditioning different transformers in new products / circuits). I absolutely LOVE IT!!But then again, when we do it, we're testing against OG, Vintage Iron to see how it stacks up with our own custom-wound XFMR's to ensure everything is sonically period-correct. If not, listening notes are made as to the differences, this goes to our transformer GURU, and we wait for another version to be sent down It's not quite as fun when it's simply testing new production iron vs new production iron LOL It takes all kinds Chris! Glad you do it though.... I mean, SOMEONE's gotta do it, right? Hahahaha. Very important piece to many of these "legendary circuit" puzzles, but not the whole story. A "thing" is only as good as the sum of its parts.
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Post by shoe on Aug 16, 2019 20:04:18 GMT -6
LOL It takes all kinds Chris! Glad you do it though.... I mean, SOMEONE's gotta do it, right? Hahahaha. Very important piece to many of these "legendary circuit" puzzles, but not the whole story. A "thing" is only as good as the sum of its parts. Indeed. I think transistors are, for some reason, pretty under-rated in their influence in pro audio gear.
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 20, 2019 21:36:03 GMT -6
In general I always seem to love the sound of Sowters....and did again here too.
But of course it all depends on the model #. Cinemags can range from very good, to some budget stuff out there that isn't my preference. Carnhills all have that Neve sound for the most part from what I've personally heard, but Sowter for me just seems to have that vintage grainyness yet open.
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