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Post by shoe on Aug 11, 2019 15:51:36 GMT -6
I've had a Warm Audio 273EQ pretty much since they came out and I use it quite a bit (especially for the insert feature while processing tape echo at line level, but also for DI bass EQ and generally for its very resonant High Pass Filters). I like the unit a lot, but like some others I also have found it to be a little bit gritty or lo-fi at times. We all talk about the impact of transformers on 1073s, so I figured I'd do an experiment and try swapping the output transformers to a brand I like a lot and have always had good luck with: Sowter. I finally got around to it this weekend and did it one channel at a time so I could satisfy my curiosity with some A/B testing before deciding to swap out the transformer on both channels. For this test, I ran a short section of some early stems/tracks from a new song that I have been tracking and am just starting to mix, disabling any effects that weren't already printed. It's not a 100% perfect test because this IS two channels of an analog unit using the same settings (line in > 25dB gain, no EQ, max output trim > line out to a Dangerous AD+ without transformers inserted). So, there's bound to be a little bit of part tolerance in there. However, the channels are actually quite well-matched in my experience, so I think that impact is negligible after I normalized everything (I had only come up with about 0.1dB of difference in peaks between them in the first place). Since I only have one channel of each, this is all in mono. The tracks I ran are: DI Musicmaster Bass take recorded/processed through REDD.47 > RS124 > Curvebender Shoegaze Microtonal Guitar Stem recorded/processed through TG2 > Curvebender Triple Tracked Lead Guitar recorded through TG2 > Curvebender Drum Stem with no processing made in Superior Drummer 3 Vocal Stem Recorded through REDD.47 > RS124 > Curvebender and subsequently processed through a UAD Plate, Dynacord Echocord Super 65 inserted through the Warm 273EQ before the mod and also sent through 1176 > Curvebender after the Warm's Output A basic Mix of everything (not run as a mix through each unit, but just an ITB summing of all of these tracks) 88.2k/24bit Files are all available as a .zip via this Dropbox Link: Warm Audio 273EQ Carnhill vs Sowter Output TransformerI won't bias anyone by sharing my opinions just yet. Let me know what you guys think! |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 11, 2019 16:00:39 GMT -6
Great thx, been very curious how this worked out !
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Post by phantom on Aug 11, 2019 20:15:11 GMT -6
Thanks for this, man. I would love to hear at least the Vocal without all the process.
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Post by stam on Aug 12, 2019 2:13:46 GMT -6
It's important to say which model you used.
A transformer brand does not say much but the model and the application
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Post by shoe on Aug 12, 2019 11:58:51 GMT -6
The comparison is between the Warm Audio's Stock Carnhill transformers (which I believe are proprietary) and the Sowter 1717, which is their higher end publicly available 1073 L01166 type output transformer. They do have a lower cost option and of course make proprietary versions as well. I figured I'd go with the best one I have access to.
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Post by shoe on Aug 12, 2019 12:00:28 GMT -6
Thanks for this, man. I would love to hear at least the Vocal without all the process. Hmm. Perhaps. I'll have get some of the connectors they use to make it easier to swap back and forth. It'll probably be a little while before I can do this test. |
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Post by shoe on Aug 13, 2019 23:28:58 GMT -6
Thanks for this, man. I would love to hear at least the Vocal without all the process. So, I was able to get some of these connectors faster than expected and I ran the dry vocal (as well as some other things again or a bit differently). This time I also used the exact same channel and settings on each comparison, so this is pretty close to scientific. I'll upload some files a bit later and also add some null results from summing the tracks inverted. The vocals actually yielded some pretty interesting results. This makes me curious to try one or two other transformers... |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 14, 2019 1:48:49 GMT -6
Hammond ? A Canadian made transformer used in dangerous convert AD +?
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 8:34:02 GMT -6
Hammond ? A Canadian made transformer used in dangerous convert AD +? That would be interesting. Do they actually make a 1073 output transformer? I have some older hammond transformers in some guitar amps. |
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Post by stam on Aug 14, 2019 8:39:00 GMT -6
The comparison is between the Warm Audio's Stock Carnhill transformers (which I believe are proprietary) and the Sowter 1717, which is their higher end publicly available 1073 L01166 type output transformer. They do have a lower cost option and of course make proprietary versions as well. I figured I'd go with the best one I have access to. That is cool If I ever have a spare one I would be happy to send you the Sowter 1777 which we use on our 1073. It is custom made for us under our specs. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 14, 2019 9:01:18 GMT -6
I don’t know but they are still in business, why not contact them and see ?
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Post by phantom on Aug 14, 2019 9:15:01 GMT -6
The comparison is between the Warm Audio's Stock Carnhill transformers (which I believe are proprietary) and the Sowter 1717, which is their higher end publicly available 1073 L01166 type output transformer. They do have a lower cost option and of course make proprietary versions as well. I figured I'd go with the best one I have access to. That is cool If I ever have a spare one I would be happy to send you the Sowter 1777 which we use on our 1073. It is custom made for us under our specs. That would make this test even cooler. |
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 10:53:35 GMT -6
The comparison is between the Warm Audio's Stock Carnhill transformers (which I believe are proprietary) and the Sowter 1717, which is their higher end publicly available 1073 L01166 type output transformer. They do have a lower cost option and of course make proprietary versions as well. I figured I'd go with the best one I have access to. That is cool If I ever have a spare one I would be happy to send you the Sowter 1777 which we use on our 1073. It is custom made for us under our specs. I was considering trying that. I have 4 channels of Stam Sowter 1073s but I am somewhat hesitant to remove one of the transformers to experiment. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 14, 2019 12:09:37 GMT -6
Really just a few unsolders and solders?  |
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 12:45:40 GMT -6
Really just a few unsolders and solders? True but...I dunno if I want to mess with the warranty, etc. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 14, 2019 13:17:47 GMT -6
Maybe josh can give you the green light?
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 13:36:17 GMT -6
Maybe josh can give you the green light? Maybe. Or a spare transformer is also fine with me lol. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 14, 2019 16:33:36 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things.
I HATE listening to transformers. LOL
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 14, 2019 17:10:50 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL Curious, who winds your Neveish transformers? |
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Post by drbill on Aug 14, 2019 17:19:43 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL Curious, who winds your Neveish transformers? Sorry, that's proprietary, and a closely held part of the LTL recipe. I've got an NDA on that kinda stuff.... cheers, |
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 20:41:41 GMT -6
OK! I uploaded a few more files. I mostly made them a bit shorter this time. Warm Sowter vs Carnhill 2This time I did the dry vocals and I also did a Buss Compressed version of the drums. Those source tracks were recorded as follows: Vocals: Chandler TG Mic > Chandler REDD.47 > 1176 > RS124 > Curvebender Drums: Superior Drummer 3 > BAE 10DCF I also included some null tests this time. These were essentially from some of the same comparison tracks as before, except re-recorded, this time using the exact same channel and settings and swapping the transformer between prints. I did do the two compressed drum parts "live" and I'm not sure if part of what's heard in that null test is maybe the compressor isn't entirely precise each time? Either that or perhaps there's a significant difference in transient response between the transformers. I didn't bring up the levels in the null tests on purpose, however, so you can hear the differences to scale. I thought the vocal one was quite interesting, myself. |
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Post by shoe on Aug 14, 2019 20:43:07 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL I literally had a dream last night about listening to transformers. Except I was installing them in my own body somehow and listening to how different my voice sounded between OT models. Truly the stuff of nightmares. |
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Post by audioscape on Aug 14, 2019 21:06:37 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL Hahaha, I do this ALL the time (listening to, running analysis on and auditioning different transformers in new products / circuits). I absolutely LOVE IT!! But then again, when we do it, we're testing against OG, Vintage Iron to see how it stacks up with our own custom-wound XFMR's to ensure everything is sonically period-correct. If not, listening notes are made as to the differences, this goes to our transformer GURU, and we wait for another version to be sent down  It's not quite as fun when it's simply testing new production iron vs new production iron |
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Post by audioscape on Aug 14, 2019 21:07:21 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL I literally had a dream last night about listening to transformers. Except I was installing them in my own body somehow and listening to how different my voice sounded between OT models. Truly the stuff of nightmares. LOL now THAT is just a bit bizarre... oddly very interesting as well though.  |
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Post by drbill on Aug 14, 2019 21:59:00 GMT -6
When listening to transformers (both API and Neve) for the Silver Bullet we must have listened to 20+ in each tribe from all the normal suspects. There are some subtle differences. Most were good. A few were not so good. A couple were standout. We went with one of those for the API side of the box. Eventually we had our own custom XFMR wound for the Neve side of things. I HATE listening to transformers. LOL Hahaha, I do this ALL the time (listening to, running analysis on and auditioning different transformers in new products / circuits).
I absolutely LOVE IT!!But then again, when we do it, we're testing against OG, Vintage Iron to see how it stacks up with our own custom-wound XFMR's to ensure everything is sonically period-correct. If not, listening notes are made as to the differences, this goes to our transformer GURU, and we wait for another version to be sent down It's not quite as fun when it's simply testing new production iron vs new production iron LOL It takes all kinds Chris! Glad you do it though.... |
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