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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 2, 2019 17:24:00 GMT -6
This is why 67s and 87s have been most people's "go to" vocal microphone for the past 60 years!
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Post by M57 on Aug 2, 2019 17:26:37 GMT -6
I would add that smiling as you breathe in (with cool air on the palette) is an important 'pre'-start of the technique.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2019 19:28:16 GMT -6
I would add that smiling as you breathe in (with cool air on the palette) is an important 'pre'-start of the technique. Proper breathing is a whole other topic and usually the cause of most singing issues.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2019 22:18:13 GMT -6
But the 47 (FET & Tube) stole my heart...
Isn't the 47 FET at least comparable, to a 67-Regarding being "anti-sibilant"?
Thanks, Chris
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Post by hio on Aug 3, 2019 2:15:05 GMT -6
The very *first* voice lesson I took many moons ago, my teacher taught me how to deemphasize the P's (plosives) and the S'es (sibilance). 😲
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Post by telecastertube on Aug 3, 2019 6:10:08 GMT -6
In Cubase I lately apply an offline processing preset. It is a combination of Waves sibilance (an excellent relative new plugin) and RX 7. I use that just on the S parts (manually highlight the S and apply/adjust) Better to avoid the esses in the first place, but performance is king… Worrying about these type of things can be killing.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2019 14:45:22 GMT -6
Just did a "one take"/off the cuffs acapella of... Jimmy Cliff's "Sitting In Limbo. Mild de-essing on the AKG P120, a sleeper vocal mic IMHO. Chris
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Aug 4, 2019 8:48:42 GMT -6
Sibilants is a non-issue ever since I started using the Airwindows deesser. Do NOT sleep on this and it’s free! Goodbye FabFilter DS! www.airwindows.com/deess-vst/
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Post by M57 on Aug 4, 2019 9:05:50 GMT -6
Sibilants is a non-issue ever since I started using the Airwindows deesser. Do NOT sleep on this and it’s free! Goodbye FabFilter DS! www.airwindows.com/deess-vst/I can't find a link to download an AU version.
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Aug 4, 2019 12:42:21 GMT -6
Sibilants is a non-issue ever since I started using the Airwindows deesser. Do NOT sleep on this and it’s free! Goodbye FabFilter DS! www.airwindows.com/deess-vst/I can't find a link to download an AU version. www.airwindows.com/wp-content/uploads/NewUpdates.zipHe makes you grab everything and then you can selectively add to your Computer’s library. These are all free and then there’s some juiced up versions that you can buy (comes with some extra features like the deEss3 lets you listen to the sidechain.) The idea of listening to the sidechain on DeEss3 is obviously utility based, but offers a uniquely cool way to solo the words with “high slew rate” (this deEesser doesn’t operate spectrally, but rather responds to quick reverse oscillations within the waveform to find the sibilants. This is why you can obliterate/filter the Esses while fully retaining the highs)
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Post by M57 on Aug 4, 2019 14:53:31 GMT -6
www.airwindows.com/wp-content/uploads/NewUpdates.zipHe makes you grab everything and then you can selectively add to your Computer’s library. These are all free and then there’s some juiced up versions that you can buy (comes with some extra features like the deEss3 lets you listen to the sidechain.)The idea of listening to the sidechain on DeEss3 is obviously utility based, but offers a uniquely cool way to solo the words with “high slew rate” (this deEesser doesn’t operate spectrally, but rather responds to quick reverse oscillations within the waveform to find the sibilants. This is why you can obliterate/filter the Esses while fully retaining the highs) Thanks.. So far so good. I downloaded the files and put the au DeEss.component file in /Library/Audio/Plug-ins/Components as per instructions. When I open Logic the plug-in manager doesn't see them. I always seem to get confuzzled here. There's gotta be one more step, right? I put the vst file in /Library/Audio/Plug-ins/VST for good measure. Still no joy. EDIT: Restarted computer and it's there. I'll play with it this evening.
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Post by M57 on Aug 5, 2019 13:04:47 GMT -6
Sibilants is a non-issue ever since I started using the Airwindows deesser. Do NOT sleep on this and it’s free! Goodbye FabFilter DS! www.airwindows.com/deess-vst/I spent some time with it last night and found it hard to dial in because it offers no way to monitor what the filter is doing. That said, I put it up against my current go-to, which is the one that comes with Logic, and I'm tempted to say that I was able to get a more musical result using it subtly. It's just so hard to tell with these things. Sometimes I feel like my essess are a moving target.
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Aug 5, 2019 17:27:05 GMT -6
Sibilants is a non-issue ever since I started using the Airwindows deesser. Do NOT sleep on this and it’s free! Goodbye FabFilter DS! www.airwindows.com/deess-vst/found it hard to dial in because it offers no way to monitor what the filter is doing He released a new version called DeEss3 with the ability to solo the sidechain but it’s not free. This video will help explain what the thing is actually doing. The GUI is obviously simple, but doesn’t offer much explanation on its own.
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Post by roundbadge on Aug 5, 2019 23:03:59 GMT -6
I choose a good mic for the singer. wack them s,pops clicks etc down with clip gain.then maybe a software de lesser like fab F,massey or waves.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 5, 2019 23:20:50 GMT -6
found it hard to dial in because it offers no way to monitor what the filter is doing He released a new version called DeEss3 with the ability to solo the sidechain but it’s not free. This video will help explain what the thing is actually doing. The GUI is obviously simple, but doesn’t offer much explanation on its own. Chris is amazing. I don't really use plugins, but if I was to go ITB his stuff would be on the top of my list! And I've often wished that some of the stuff he does was available as hardware, if that's even possible.
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Post by seawell on Aug 6, 2019 11:11:39 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on Aug 6, 2019 13:32:02 GMT -6
Isn't this (in effect) how most plugin de-essers work in the first place? I guess the advantage of Mr. Clearmountain's method is that you get to choose the compressor, its attack and release times, and customize the curves of the frequencies being affected, etc. The advantage of the plugin is that you don't have to deal with, or even understand how to make a de-esser.
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Post by seawell on Aug 6, 2019 19:02:54 GMT -6
Isn't this (in effect) how most plugin de-essers work in the first place? I guess the advantage of Mr. Clearmountain's method is that you get to choose the compressor, its attack and release times, and customize the curves of the frequencies being affected, etc. The advantage of the plugin is that you don't have to deal with, or even understand how to make a de-esser. In theory I guess it is but it sounds a good bit different to me. Give it a try if you haven't yet.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 6, 2019 19:40:53 GMT -6
The de-esser in DP has a visual response view that’s easy to sort for center and width of control, and look ahead processing along with sensitivity, attack and release controls. I usually get something pretty good out of it very easily. DP also has a dynamic EQ, and it never seems to do a great job, even though the control set looks the same. Something is different under the hood. For instruments, I usually try both and pick one or the other.
Still like and use dbx 902’s, these days while tracking mainly, if needed.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 9, 2019 17:33:22 GMT -6
I've felt for quite sometime that sibilance is considerably worsened by even tiny amounts of high frequency distortion in the signal chain. I used to think using a dark mic was an obvious fix for excessive sibilance but I have found that my most detailed LDC mic which is a Neumann U77 manages to produces clean, detailed and yet fuzz free esses.
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Post by M57 on Aug 9, 2019 18:07:59 GMT -6
The de-esser in DP has a visual response view that’s easy to sort for center and width of control, and look ahead processing along with sensitivity, attack and release controls. I usually get something pretty good out of it very easily. DP also has a dynamic EQ, and it never seems to do a great job, even though the control set looks the same. Something is different under the hood. For instruments, I usually try both and pick one or the other. Still like and use dbx 902’s, these days while tracking mainly, if needed. This may be worthy of a different thread, but I've always wondered how DIY songwriters who have to engineer themselves manage to effectively use EQ related devices in their own vocal recording chain. At least with compressors you can watch the needle and reasonably gauge the grab that way. But I don't trust myself to EQ my own voice on the way in. I just don't see myself being able to hear and compensate for an over active de-esser whlie I'm singing. Does the 902 have the kind of meters that let you know what's going on?
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Post by chessparov on Aug 9, 2019 18:35:20 GMT -6
I've felt for quite sometime that sibilance is considerably worsened by even tiny amounts of high frequency distortion in the signal chain. I used to think using a dark mic was an obvious fix for excessive sibilance but I have found that my most detailed LDC mic which is a Neumann U77 manages to produces clean, detailed and yet fuzz free esses. Yes! There are exceptions, like the TG on me-even pretty close up. My U195 needs 10" plus away. (set flat) Chris
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Post by EmRR on Aug 9, 2019 19:40:19 GMT -6
The de-esser in DP has a visual response view that’s easy to sort for center and width of control, and look ahead processing along with sensitivity, attack and release controls. I usually get something pretty good out of it very easily. DP also has a dynamic EQ, and it never seems to do a great job, even though the control set looks the same. Something is different under the hood. For instruments, I usually try both and pick one or the other. Still like and use dbx 902’s, these days while tracking mainly, if needed. This may be worthy of a different thread, but I've always wondered how DIY songwriters who have to engineer themselves manage to effectively use EQ related devices in their own vocal recording chain. At least with compressors you can watch the needle and reasonably gauge the grab that way. But I don't trust myself to EQ my own voice on the way in. I just don't see myself being able to hear and compensate for an over active de-esser whlie I'm singing. Does the 902 have the kind of meters that let you know what's going on? The 902 has a range marked on the control and a very responsive meter system, so you can pretty easily tell what's too much.
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 10, 2019 1:55:03 GMT -6
There’s a few plugins I suspect that help me keep hisses at bay without getting the lisp. The only mics I’m using are the Sm7b and MTR-231. At times I do wish I could get a little more high end on the vocal, but I think what I do get is adequate. First thing is that I mainly use the VLB902 and occasionally the Weiss De-Esser. I’m guessing Phoenix in Dark Essence mode helps. Maybe Dopamine set to Type A is another factor. On a guy who was really spitty and shouty I had to add C4 and Ra in there too. I run BX SSL E on everything. Other stuff like Tapedesk, Satin, IK Tape 80, Vsm-3, Uad 1176, Oxford Limiter, and Tube Tech MKII on the auxes could be of help. Reverb and FX choices may be relevant.
Some plugins can really bring the sibilance out. It got a lot easier dealing with it after switching to 88/96 too. When I tried Sonnox Suppressor I felt like it didn’t control it as well as the 902 or Weiss.
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2019 4:38:19 GMT -6
A 900 series chassis? What's that?? Hah! It barely gets a hit when googled. Is the 520 a reasonable facsimile? And while I'm thinking about it, why de-ess while recording when you could apply (and print if you like) the de-esser later? Is it perhaps because it's preferable to De-ess before the signal hits any other hardware ..like a compressor?
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