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Post by lcr on Mar 4, 2014 18:01:50 GMT -6
Is it bad to have your console and top mounted racks level instead of at an angle? I see desks built where you keep the angle of the console design and angle the racks on both sides(top mounted) at an angle vs having the console and the top loading racks level. I already built a level top loading rack, and was hoping I could get away with building another just like it, and build the console into the center. Its not a large console, approx. 28 inches wide x 23 inches deep. It will be 18 rack spaces per side. If I can get away with making everything level I could use 1 rack that Ive already built, but If its gonna mess up reflections, etc. I will start from scratch. Any opinions/help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by gouge on Mar 4, 2014 18:08:05 GMT -6
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to describe. however...
the idea of the angle is to limit reflections which disrupt the audio quality by reflecting the sound away from your ear.
a lot comes down to where your speakers are located but I can say there is nothing more annoying then testing your mix position and finding that when you lay acoustic treatment on your mixer things sound clearer.
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Post by lcr on Mar 4, 2014 18:13:40 GMT -6
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to describe. however... the idea of the angle is to limit reflections which disrupt the audio quality by reflecting the sound away from your ear. a lot comes down to where your speakers are located but I can say there is nothing more annoying then testing your mix position and finding that when you lay acoustic treatment on your mixer things sound clearer. Sorry If I didn't explain my question well. The mixers surface is at an angle when setting on a level desk. If I built my new desk so that the top surface of the mixer is flat instead of at an angle, is this bad even for a smaller mixer? I want to build the desk so the top of the mixer and both racks on the sides are at the same angle. |
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Post by lcr on Mar 4, 2014 18:15:39 GMT -6
Just realized this should probably be in "DIY"...
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Post by lcr on Mar 4, 2014 18:18:56 GMT -6
Speakers will be on DIY'd sand filled stands on the floor directly behind the desk.
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Post by gouge on Mar 4, 2014 18:33:33 GMT -6
yep,
it's bad to have your mixer surface level because you are potentially creating reflections that will occur within the approx. 20ms window and this is meant to be a bad thing. ie your speakers sound will bounce off your console and you will hear that.
your speaker placement can increase or decrease this effect as well.
7 degrees is about what get recommended.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 5, 2014 7:13:01 GMT -6
Moved it over here lcr. You'll get more help here anyway I think. Mine is on an angle for my console and I much prefer it that way. Easier to see the board for 40 year old dudes like myself. It's probably somewhere around a 10 to 15 degree angle. Just right. |
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Post by svart on Mar 5, 2014 8:43:09 GMT -6
Yeah, I don't think consoles had angles for audio reflection correctness in the beginning. I think they did so that you could reach knobs and things without your sleeves catching on everything like they would on a flat console.
Honestly I think the reflection thing is overrated. There is so much other stuff that needs to be corrected in the typical home studio before worrying about reflection points on a console. Chances are you are sitting too close to your monitors to begin with if you have issues with reflections on the desk.
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Post by lcr on Mar 5, 2014 19:39:46 GMT -6
Moved it over here lcr. You'll get more help here anyway I think. Mine is on an angle for my console and I much prefer it that way. Easier to see the board for 40 year old dudes like myself. It's probably somewhere around a 10 to 15 degree angle. Just right. I can relate to being in your 40's and difficulty to see. Im upgrading my monitor to a wall mounted flat screen. |
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Post by lcr on Mar 5, 2014 19:52:51 GMT -6
Yeah, I don't think consoles had angles for audio reflection correctness in the beginning. I think they did so that you could reach knobs and things without your sleeves catching on everything like they would on a flat console. Honestly I think the reflection thing is overrated. There is so much other stuff that needs to be corrected in the typical home studio before worrying about reflection points on a console. Chances are you are sitting too close to your monitors to begin with if you have issues with reflections on the desk. My speaker triangle is approx 5 ft at the points. Ive treated the room with 101 treatment(early reflection, cloud, bass traps, etc.) i might get lazy and use the one rack i've already built and make everything level. My speakers are approx 1 ft from the wall, corners are treated however. Thanks for everyones opinions/help. |
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Post by lcr on Mar 6, 2014 5:31:33 GMT -6
What about keeping the angle of the mixer and having 2 top loaded racks level on each side? Would the level racks still create nasty reflection?
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Post by svart on Mar 6, 2014 7:50:11 GMT -6
The only real reflection problems will be within the speaker projection triangle, unless you had a fully reflective back wall, which would have allowed the sound to bounce off the racks. It seems like you have pretty good sound control though.
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Post by mulmany on Mar 6, 2014 8:08:02 GMT -6
I was doing 2 "mastering" projects back to back and some where in the middle of it I changed my desk out. I went from around a 2' x 4' desk to a 1.5' x 2' desk and it was a significant improvement in monitoring clarity. Mostly in the hi/mid to hi's. My desk is now just big enough for my monitor and keyboard/mouse. My rack is under the desk, not a lot of leg room while working but the sonic improvement is worth it.
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Post by lcr on Mar 6, 2014 9:31:11 GMT -6
I was doing 2 "mastering" projects back to back and some where in the middle of it I changed my desk out. I went from around a 2' x 4' desk to a 1.5' x 2' desk and it was a significant improvement in monitoring clarity. Mostly in the hi/mid to hi's. My desk is now just big enough for my monitor and keyboard/mouse. My rack is under the desk, not a lot of leg room while working but the sonic improvement is worth it. Not to turn this into a ITB vs OTB discussion, but I agree with you slimming the desk down for less reflection is one great advantage of ITB. I am starting a mix ITB to see how it holds up to OTB thru the console. I am not going to mix the same track both ways and compare, I don't feel that is really a fair comparison. If I am happy with the results, I will complete a few more mixes ITB and then make some workflow considerations, which will drastically effect the size of my DIY desk(console vs no console). I know replacing the console with a summing box is also an option, I just wanna give ITB a try. |
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Post by mulmany on Mar 6, 2014 10:39:47 GMT -6
For me, I would love a console and be working a hybrid set up, but it's not really feasible right now. I did the smaller desk as a experiment and found that it was an improvement in my situation.
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Post by lcr on Mar 6, 2014 11:20:31 GMT -6
For me, I would love a console and be working a hybrid set up, but it's not really feasible right now. I did the smaller desk as a experiment and found that it was an improvement in my situation. The worst part for me at the moment about using a console with outboard is easily getting to the outboards controls while still in the stereo field, I cant.. Its all off to the side and quite frustrating. I feel I am really not experiencing the full advantages of OTB because of this. I think having the rack gear top loaded on the sides of the desk would be ideal. Except for the reason this thread exists.. Reflection(s) |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 6, 2014 15:12:25 GMT -6
Concerning console angle. It has been said that part of the magic of the revered NS-10's was that they were usually perched atop an SSL 400o or similar. Thus the angle of the board actually helped them come into their sound so to speak. Couldn't say myself never using them with an SSL but say MY monitors sound better to me atop my desk than they do elsewhere. Food for thought.
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Post by lcr on Mar 6, 2014 20:24:55 GMT -6
Concerning console angle. It has been said that part of the magic of the revered NS-10's was that they were usually perched atop an SSL 400o or similar. Thus the angle of the board actually helped them come into their sound so to speak. Couldn't say myself never using them with an SSL but say MY monitors sound better to me atop my desk than they do elsewhere. Food for thought. Interesting. Well, i am mixing the ITB mix in front of the console at Its designed angle. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 6, 2014 21:29:24 GMT -6
I used to throw a heavy cover over my tac board, when shut down back in the day, some times it would sit at the console and listen to music through the monitors patched(not through the console), it sounded different, and I found myself checking mixes with the cover on top of the console, it sounded better w/out first reflections imv
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