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Post by drbill on Jun 23, 2019 16:49:55 GMT -6
Ugh...I get your sentiment and can kind of buy into it, but your choice of mic would be one of the last I'd ever reach for...... God damn me too...let us go bond somewhere with our mutual distaste of such an overrated ear scraping microphone... sorry, carry on everyone. I'm in. Who's buying??
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 17:03:58 GMT -6
No "like"-let alone "love", for the B-ULS? Tough crowd... Chris
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2019 17:15:51 GMT -6
An original U47 with V14 is going for what - $15k from a reputable dealer? It in no way, shape or form sounds 5 times better than the Heiserman I just bought...I have been searching for mics that I put up and they just work. No weird pinching or resonances. The H47 does that. For a fifth of the price.
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Post by drbill on Jun 23, 2019 17:23:24 GMT -6
No "like"-let alone "love", for the B-ULS? Tough crowd... Chris Nope! Bleech!!
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Post by drbill on Jun 23, 2019 17:24:51 GMT -6
An original U47 with V14 is going for what - $15k from a reputable dealer? It in no way, shape or form sounds 5 times better than the Heiserman I just bought...I have been searching for mics that I put up and they just work. No weird pinching or resonances. The H47 does that. For a fifth of the price. Yeah, for other than a collector, it's just not worth the going price IMO. There are great alternatives, and the differences are minimal. Evenmoreso with the current "state-of-the-art" laptop speakers. :lol:
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 23, 2019 17:25:55 GMT -6
God damn me too...let us go bond somewhere with our mutual distaste of such an overrated ear scraping microphone... sorry, carry on everyone. I'm in. Who's buying?? First round's on me!
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Post by damoongo on Jun 23, 2019 17:35:39 GMT -6
An original U47 with V14 is going for what - $15k from a reputable dealer? It in no way, shape or form sounds 5 times better than the Heiserman I just bought...I have been searching for mics that I put up and they just work. No weird pinching or resonances. The H47 does that. For a fifth of the price. I hear you. But it’s not a multiplication equation. It doesn’t make sense to say it sounds 150 times better than a 58 either. It just sounds like it sounds, and it costs what it costs. Just like any mic. So we decide if we want one or not!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2019 18:08:08 GMT -6
An original U47 with V14 is going for what - $15k from a reputable dealer? It in no way, shape or form sounds 5 times better than the Heiserman I just bought...I have been searching for mics that I put up and they just work. No weird pinching or resonances. The H47 does that. For a fifth of the price. I hear you. But it’s not a multiplication equation. It doesn’t make sense to say it sounds 150 times better than a 58 either. It just sounds like it sounds, and it costs what it costs. Just like any mic. So we decide if we want one or not! If you can justify the expense, more power to you. I could see maybe buying a 67 when the ship comes in, but unless I was wealthy and used it as investments, I just can’t see putting over $15k in one item.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 18:10:47 GMT -6
Hey, I know I was being a bit provocative, on my last Frank/D24 post.
But isn't it interesting how good (I think great), that microphone was for him on that song? Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 23, 2019 18:47:45 GMT -6
My answer would be a straight up No. I’ve had every clone out there aside from something that’s come out within the past 6 months to a year next to either our tele badged or Neumann badged long body. Both have the real deal tube and neither are showing any signs of needing any work done. There is always minimum 15% missing. And that seems to be the most important part. I’ll also say that :gasp: I don’t put that mic in front of just anybody. You’ve got to honestly deserve to sing into something like that for me to consider taking it out of the mic locker. And even in that case, many times the 47 isn’t what’s needed on a voice. That says a lot considering the M49C you also have in the locker, among other greats.
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Post by lpedrum on Jun 23, 2019 19:02:50 GMT -6
Ugh...I get your sentiment and can kind of buy into it, but your choice of mic would be one of the last I'd ever reach for...... The original incarnation of 414, with the C12 capsule, is a formidable microphone indeed IMHO. Chris I used one of those on a couple of sessions -- still didn't dig the 414. I thought it was me, but it's interesting to see that Bill is not a big fan either. I'd love to live with one in my own studio for a week and find out what it really does and what I might be missing. But I digress...
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Post by drbill on Jun 23, 2019 19:30:36 GMT -6
The original incarnation of 414, with the C12 capsule, is a formidable microphone indeed IMHO. Chris I used one of those on a couple of sessions -- still didn't dig the 414. I thought it was me, but it's interesting to see that Bill is not a big fan either. I'd love to live with one in my own studio for a week and find out what it really does and what I might be missing. But I digress... They can be cool on some stuff. I've used em for Voiceover pretty successfully. Nice, thick and kind of aggressive. But for whatever reason, I still don't gravitate towards them. IMO AKG took a huge nosedive after the legacy of the C12/24's.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 20:02:44 GMT -6
Until the very affordable VR model! :-) Chris
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Post by cdkelly on Jun 23, 2019 20:21:12 GMT -6
Just a clarification out of respect for Chad, his hard work, and great products. His company is "Signal Art Electronics". I keep seeing it being referenced as "Arts", which understandably is easily done. thanks man. Even the testing company called it Signal Arts... lol I was wondering if I should just go with it. haha
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2019 20:27:23 GMT -6
Just a clarification out of respect for Chad, his hard work, and great products. His company is "Signal Art Electronics". I keep seeing it being referenced as "Arts", which understandably is easily done. thanks man. Even the testing company called it Signal Arts... lol I was wondering if I should just go with it. haha Did you get the 408a’s to be stable? Not trolling - just remember people saying they couldn’t get ones without noise.
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Post by cdkelly on Jun 23, 2019 20:32:33 GMT -6
When Sinatra sang and recorded "It Was A Very Good Year", the AKG D24 dynamic microphone used... Yielded a final product, that sounded remarkably close IMHO, to Frank on a pristine 47. (If I didn't tell 'ya, could you reliably tell the difference?) I think the "elephant in the room" of this thread, is the "chemical reaction" of Talent meets microphone. The various idiosyncrasies of a voice or instrument, can and could help "fill in the blanks" of that final recording. Chris Even crazier still, on Sinatra's final album (Duets vol. I and II), they had his famous Capital Records U48 (which is what he most often used, though people like to say it he used a 47) warmed up and ready for him; but instead he used a handheld Sennheiser wireless microphone that he brought with him for the album because he 'wanted to walk around a bit'. Nobody has ever complained about the vocal production, even though using 'stage wireless' technology in a studio setting is nearly the ultimate blasphemy... and not the only time it was done either; overdriving the Marshall amp inputs in the studio using early wireless guitar receivers was a trick used by AC/DC for their huge guitar sound in the early 80's. I 'make' tube mics, and still one of my favorite vocal mics is the SM7b. That doesn't mean I don't try to use my mics; but its all about the situation at hand. I've had to record people in hotel rooms, on location, places that are very poorly treated; and in those situations I'll use something that won't be as sensitive to room acoustics. Also good if someone is aggressively loud or needs to get close to the mic; it can give a sense of intimacy or closeness by blocking out a lot of the outside world, without clipping or much saturation. Its not what I always reach for; but its common that I do. I think people sometimes get so interested in gear (and believe me, I do too) that they forget that source and talent (and room) actually come before even the mic, let alone the rest of the chain.
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Post by cdkelly on Jun 23, 2019 20:47:34 GMT -6
thanks man. Even the testing company called it Signal Arts... lol I was wondering if I should just go with it. haha Did you get the 408a’s to be stable? Not trolling - just remember people saying they couldn’t get ones without noise. Oh yes, its a good question; no problem at all. I have a system worked out. I have a stockpile of about 675 pieces, all NOS Western Electric brand 408a's, which I think were the fullest sounding and among the quietest and best quality. It's still a bit of cherry picking to be done considering they are 60 year old tubes. I clean them all and de-scale the pins for excellent contact (very important, in fact I get the pins cleaner than they actually were at the time of production!), and then they all pass through a testing rig that I put together for them, basically a buffer circuit that passes on to a preamp, amplifier, and loudspeaker. There they are tested for a burn in duration of a couple minutes and checked for both noise and microphonics. It's all done by ear, and with a rosewood stick. The rejection rate is about 50%, give or take, sometimes rejected for noise, sometimes for microphonics, sometimes for intermittent behavior or instability. I keep only the ones that I have total confidence in; but I still ship mics with a spare set of tubes just in case. I try to do about 50 pieces or so on a QC session because you can really 'get in the zone' and really hone in on the baseline normal for what is expected out of that tube, noise and microphonics wise. Its harder when you only need to get one pair, its easier to sit there and just do a whole lot. It becomes easier the more you do. Once all the bad, unstable, and suspect tubes are weeded out, you get some pretty good and consistent results. I think my 47 actually has much lower self noise than a number of popular solid state condensers I've compared it to, like the U87 or various pencil mics; and I frequently do that test. I also put a pair of tube damper rings on every set of tubes when they're installed; the good Sandy Levy rings made from aerospace silicon. Even though I already reject the abnormally microphonic tubes; this just gives me the final peace of mind, I guess. So far, I haven't had problems. I've had maybe 2 customers put a new set of tubes in their units already after a year or so in the field... Anything can happen with 60+ year old valves; but again its why I include spares, and I'll also send out spares to customers if they need them. When I start to run low enough, I'll probably cease production on it; to ensure I have enough tubes for service/support for as long as I'm around.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 21:07:29 GMT -6
If I ran Neumann, back in its heyday, I'd be trying to employ a certain thorough young man, for my design team.
Gee, I wonder who that may be? Kudos Chad! Chris
P.S. Honestly, I like Signal Arts better.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 23, 2019 21:12:53 GMT -6
On my album "Watching the Days Fall" recorded twelve years back, I used a U87 for vocals on every track except one, for some reason the 414 just worked better on that track. So I guess having an original 414 wouldn't hurt a working studio, but I wouldn't pick it if I was looking for "The One".
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 21:14:20 GMT -6
Freddie Mercury did OK, on a 414 too. Chris
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Post by cdkelly on Jun 23, 2019 21:26:42 GMT -6
Freddie Mercury did OK, on a 414 too. Chris very true!
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Post by cdkelly on Jun 23, 2019 21:27:38 GMT -6
If I ran Neumann, back in its heyday, I'd be trying to employ a certain thorough young man, for my design team. Gee, I wonder who that may be? Kudos Chad! Chris P.S. Honestly, I like Signal Arts better. appreciate the good words. well, if I didn't have 500 Signal Art badges already made...
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Post by EmRR on Jun 23, 2019 21:34:12 GMT -6
I had a singer last year that my 414B-ULS was absolutely the best sounding mic for her. The M7 mics (MK47/Theirsch and UMT70S) and 67 sounded terrible, the Samar ribbon not enough air. When it's right, it's right. Screechy and bright?!! You have to be talking about a TLII, not a standard 414. Standard is dark compared to 47/67/87. The 20 years before and all since, mine's lived on bass amp....which is where Glyn Johns likes'em.....
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2019 21:53:28 GMT -6
The Signal "Art" badges now become vintage and collectible then! Especially with the autographed "S", at the end of the name.
I trust MJB's ear... I'd probably just get a Lewitt 440 or 540, for 414-ish sound nowadays. They sounded very good when I tried them out.
Chris
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jun 23, 2019 23:20:46 GMT -6
The AKG C414 XLS (the neutral version) ain't a bad new microphone for the price. I don't care for the one with the hyped top end.
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